One of the perils of writing online is that sometimes posts or tweets can take on a life of their own; also, what seems funny to one person can be interpreted as hurtful by another.
Courtney Joseph’s blog, Women Living Well, is geared toward conservative Christian women. On June 6 she created a video and wrote a post challenging wives to spend the summer “being the woman your man needs.” She proposed a different task each week, such as:
“July 19 – 25: Make him a priority. Ask him what his favorite dinner, dessert and drink are. Be sure to serve him all three one night this week. Bonus: cook his favorite dishes all week long!”
For the first few days Courtney received nothing but positive feedback from women in her community – in fact, 127 women had already committed to the challenge through her link-up.
Jill Smokler of ScaryMommy.com saw the challenge at 1am on June 10 and thought she’d craft a sarcastic blog post titled “How To Be A Good Wife” that poked fun at it. It has since received nearly 400 comments – many of which bash Courtney’s belief system.
Jill said she woke up the next morning wondering if she’d gone too far after seeing the volume of heated responses and says she feels torn about the situation:
“I do think that what she is teaching is worrisome, but, I didn’t mean the post as a personal attack on her. It was about the challenge, not Courtney and not Christianity.”
Courtney admitted that seeing so much negativity directed towards her was hard and that part of her wanted to fight back. “But on the flip side, I don’t blame them,” she says. Courtney acknowledges that for those who read her site without sharing her faith it might not make sense. Plus, this isn’t the first time she’s found herself in the middle of a controversy. She explained:
“After appearing on the Rachael Ray Show in November of 2009, I received backlash from ladies who were outraged with my desire to let my husband be the leader of the home. I love being a stay-at-home mom and I love helping my husband by doing all of the house work, cooking, laundry, etc. This is what works for us.”
For many who stumbled across Women Living Well the advice geared towards wives alone felt out of balance, but Courtney points out that there are places with information for husbands who share her faith such as loveandrespect.com.
By the time Courtney found out she was the subject of a raging debate about the role of wives at home it had spread beyond Scary Mommy’s site. She spoke to her husband about the situation and although he was initially hesitant, he eventually agreed that writing a response was the appropriate thing to do.
“If he had told me to not write a blog post addressing it – I would have submitted. But that is the beauty of a loving marriage – he does indeed listen to me – and nearly always encourages me to do what I think is best. He knows I am an intelligent strong passionate woman and he would never hold me back in a controlling way.”
Courtney’s response was gracious and welcoming to her new readers.
“She is pretty much my polar opposite, and we will never see eye to eye,” said Jill. “But, I thought her response was thoughtful and appropriate. Like I said, I didn’t set out to hurt her personally, and was relieved to see that I hadn’t.”
In the end, both Courtney and Jill believe it’s important to talk about gender roles within a marriage – even if they come to very different conclusions about how that plays out in their own lives.
{image credit: Ramona Forcella}
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Oh geez! Anything can be either positive OR negative depending on your approach. I wish we could all just blog about what we want to blog about without having to be 500% politically correct. I think it’s sad when people’s positive intentions get so mucked up
Jill says: “I didn’t set out to hurt her personally” “I didn’t mean the post as a personal attack on her” “I never meant to offend you [Courtney]“These statements are just as laughable as Jill’s post was to her readers. What is more concerning about the willingness and contentment for women to choose to submit to their husbands, is the ATTITUDE, messages, and words, a person conveys, and encourages, while “not offending” “not attacking” and “not hurting” another woman.
You are so right about different people looking at things differently on the internet. About 9 mos ago a member of my small group at a 14,000 member church violated my internet privacy by sending me a group e-mail addressed to all his contacts. This e-mail made fun of President Obama in a spiteful, vindictive way. I found this e-mail very offensive and I’m not a Democrat. The e-mail sender saw nothing wrong, and became very upset when I contacted all the e-mail addressees that I thought his e-mail was hateful, and that my privacy had been broken. The church’s Small Group Coordinator failed do define what e-mails were appropriate for a Bible Study, and stated there was no church policy that this e-mail violated. As a Christian RN, I often take care of patients personally I would rather not. The Lord’s message is to love others, as He LOVES them, not as humans love. I, needless to say no longer go to this church. It does not matter whether you are Republican or Democrat, we as Christians are to respect and pray our Nation’s Leaders. This women/gender role opinions vary just like politics and that is fine. Write whatever you want, this is America. .
That video makes me want to vomit. My job as a wife is as a partner, not a servant. I thought the post was funny.
I read Jill’s post and saw absolutely nothing offensive about it. If someone’s going to talk about a woman “submitting” to her husband in 2010 America, she’s got to expect some raised eyebrows. And rolled eyes.
Oh my goodness, yes lets rip into eachother as women, all in the name of “women’s rights”. Sheesh. I loved Courtney’s post, and she has shown nothing but grace and class in spite of the hateful anger spewed towards her. I guess no one listen’s to Dr. Laura either? She has been saying the SAME things for years. It’s not about being a “servant” or a doormat, it’s about loving your man! Doesn’t anyone act like a girlfriend to their man anymore? It’s sad.
The same people who are screaming from the rooftops that they will NOT do this and will NOT do that for their husbands are the same ones that later end up included in the rising divorce statistics. It’s a sad time when we, as wives, expect so much from our husbands and want them to give in to our every whim, but become offended at the thought that WE are supposed to submit ourselves to him.
Why is marriage about submission, as opposed to cooperation? I don’t think anyone is protesting consideration for one’s partner.
I’m confused by your logic Marinka. Why do you feel if we are submitting it is not about cooperation? Submission does NOT equal doormat. The fact of the matter is, Courtney and probably many that are following her into this challenge understand that the Bible, which is the Word of God, states wives are to submit to their husbands. This is not something Courtney made up.
“If he had told me to not write a blog post addressing it – I would have submitted.” Why can’t she decide for herself?!?
Because submission implies being put under another’s authority.
Marinka, you are correct. Submission is being under another’s authroity. Biblically wives are to submit to their husbands and husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church, i.e. He gave His life for the “church”, you and me!
So if your husband loves you that much, how easy would it be for you to submit, trust, honor and follow his lead?
That is what Courtney is talking about.
I didn’t see your reply before I just left my latest reply. Glad you were able to say what I was trying to say.
Why does it have to be about submission? Why can’t the husband and wife. or any partners love and support each other, without either one exerting authority over the other.
Because it’s in the Bible? I’m not Christian, so that it meaningless for me. Although I suspect that there are Christians who would take issue with the submission part regardless.
Yes, I agree that submission is being under the other party’s authority. But if it is a relationship where a wife is submitting to her husband as the church submits to Christ and at the same time the husband is loving his wife as Christ loves the church it is a cooperative relationship.
Then… Where does the submission come into play? It sounds like women who claim to submit are also in relationships where the husband would never tell them to do something that they didn’t first discuss with their wife and know that their wife is OK with doing.
Actually, the most conservative religious groups have the highest divore rates. Independent churches are first, followed by Baptists. Atheists and Agnostics, who proscribe to egalitarian marriages, have the lowest.
I thInk Courtney is a wonderful God lead woman. I believe she’s a great example and role models for young women and adult women alike. I believe God Is working in her life and her marriage. Just like Jesus was crucified, following him you will be persecuted also. I understand marriages are different all over america. But I believe if couples would take just and ounce of respect from what Courtney’s trying to teach we would have alot less divorce, and arguments in marriage. Good job Courtney..
Thank you for this fair write-up regarding this challenge and the comments it brought up. I am participating in this challenge and would encourage others to do so. It is not about being a door mat, it is about blessing, encouraging and loving your husband and helping him be all that he can be. I would like to say I didn’t have a big problem with Jill’s post, it was all the negative, hateful comments it spawned that were the issue.
It is unfortunate that people cannot respect other’s views as much as they expect others to respect their own. If you wish to not be involved in a particular challenge or not live your life the way someone else does, that’s perfectly fine. Diversity is what enriches our lives and encourages us to give proper consideration to ourselves and one another. Blogging is a wonderful outlet and sounding block for our beliefs, thoughts, and feelings. If you disagree with what someone writes or how someone lives, blogging about it isn’t wrong. But it is certainly possible to do so in a general way that opposes a perspective or a lifestyle without directly attacking or mocking an individual. Not every post requires names and links.
Thanks for an impartial post outlining this “argument” of sorts. I’m glad things worked themselves out; all’s well that ends well I suppose.
I understand that some women might not be “into” the challenges (I’m not either) but I don’t understand the comments that went on and on with women stating that their husbands would think they were crazy if they did ANY of this stuff. Seriously, if you ask your husband what his favorite meals are then cook them, he’d think you were crazy?! Yeah, I can see how that idea is just beyond all reason.
I’m also tired of women talking about how all they do is stuff for other people and all they need is to put themselves first for a change. Let’s be honest: people who say this are often putting themselves first 90% of the time and resenting the 10% of the time they have to do something for someone else.
Our culture is selfish to the extreme. I don’t think submitting to my husband is a good answer to that but some of the vitriol (in the comments, not the original post) was just unnecessary.
I think it is absolutely incredible that this will generate so much exposure for Courtney and her ministry. While some of you are being negative, in the end this will bring so many more women into this challenge!
I was incredulous when I saw the video myself. While I disagree with her style of marriage, I won’t poo-poo it. It works for them. I was more upset by my own knee-jerk response and (of course) I wrote about it in my blog.
http://neutralgood.net/blog/
What is amazing to me is that Courtney is teaching GODS WORD, if you do not believe it to be GODS WORD then what she is saying may sound funny to you.
My question to anyone who took offense to her challenge is If we do NOT truly know who Jesus Christ is how can we “truly” serve Him?
We can not pick and choose things from Gods word to live by. When you study Jesus Christ and I mean study every single day to know who He truly is, He reveals to us how we should live our lives.
That includes your neighbors, you children, your spouses, everyone around you. God says in Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” Not knowing who God truly is we live more in sin then we know.
There are so many season in our lives raising our children up to be Godly adults, putting God cetered in our marriages so that we have refuge over the devil, spending time with God ourselves so that we may draw closer to Him, and most importantly Serving Others with Joy. God says in Mark 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give His life a ransom for many”
That is what our lives should look like in ALL areas of our lives.
Living our lives for I gives room for the devil to take over at any time, however when we live our lives for GOD and let Him be in control we are at a peace that you can not explain.
My prayer to the ones who took offense is that you will look deeper into your relationship with Jesus Christ and get to know HIM so that you can have a fullfilled life that way God intended us to
Serving with Joy
Sonya Schroeder
http://www.watchmefuze.blogspot.com/
Why can’t other women respect how her sisters live their lives. Why bash, just because you don’t agree? I think that it is very immature on Jill’s part to take it that far.
If a woman makes a choice to have a submissive relationship with her husband and that’s what fulfills her and makes her happy, who am I to judge? I dont’ have to live her life and she doesn’t have to live mine.
Feminism isn’t really about making sure every woman becomes CEO. Feminism is about guaranteeing choices in life – choices to parent or not to parent, adequate medical care, access to education, community support. What a woman chooses to do with her life SO LONG AS THOSE CHOICES ARE THERE is her own business.
It doesn’t have to be a war. Does it?
In the end it turns out life was about the journey. If you aren’t doing what gives you joy, what’s the point?
As someone who considers myself a professional feminist, it always annoys me when people use their own made-up idea of feminism to promote something. Feminism isn’t supporting any choice no matter what the consequences to our gender – it’s about equality… nothing more, nothing less. In case anyone is confused – here is feminism defined by the experts…
“Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings” ~Cheris Kramerae, author of A Feminist Dictionary, 1996.
“Feminism is the advocacy of political, economic and social equality between women and men.” ~Feminist Majority Foundation
“A feminist is anyone who recognizes the equality and full humanity of women and men.” ~Gloria Steinem, founder of Ms. Magazine, leader of the Women’s Movement.
Feminism does NOT promote women being ruled by other people. Now, if a woman decides she wants to be ruled by a man, that’s her own thing, and I don’t really care (it’s not my life.) But it’s most certainly NOT what feminism is about.
It’s a shame that women can’t respect and tolerate different choices and marriages, instead of mocking and ripping each other apart.
I support Courtney’s way of doing things if that what works for her and her husband. However, it makes me very sad when she and the other women defend their submission to their husbands as the only way to be a good Christian. There are many denominations of Christianity that teach that to be a good Christian is to have a marriage of equals. It upsets me when they use this argument because they are indirectly saying that I am not a good Christian person because I have an equal partnership with my spouse.
My primary problem with this approach to women’s roles is that a woman who makes this choice for herself usually raises children who accept these roles – Courtney links to a site that I refuse to acknowledge since it emphasizes an entirely stay-at-home role for girls, eschewing public education or employment at any time outside the home. And Courtney tells people who disagree with her perspective that we do not disagree with her, we disagree with God. Note that those people asking us to be tolerant of their submissive choice are not quite as tolerant when it come to other Christians’ choices – we aren’t following God, apparently, when we aren’t submissive.
I won’t attack Courtney, but I will also not defend her right to choose her own path since that is a painfully obvious right. I will, however, defend my right to call myself a Christian, to send my children to public schools, to educate them about sex, to encourage my daughters to become whatever they please, and to make their own choices about the people they want to be. Courtney seems to think that my choices are incompatible with the word of God.I don’t know that God, but I suspect they don’t really know him either.
Most of these accusations are false. And I’m so tired of lies I have to address them:
I am not raising my daughter to not attend college – I am college educated and she is welcome to attend also – she will make her own life choices. I have never written on this topic so this is completely made up. A lie.
I am not against employment outside of home and have NEVER ever written on this topic EVER. Again a made up lie.
I did not say that those who disagree with my “perspective” aren’t following God. I said “the principles I write about on Women Living Well are from the Bible – so if you disagree with the principles then your issue is with God.” Read Ephesians 5:22-33 and Titus 2:3-5 – submitting in marriage is a principle in the Bible. You have to decide for yourself how you will apply this principle.
I have never ever written judgement on women who have a different perspective. I only encourage women to submit (my blog is more written from a perspective of being “for” things rather than “against” things) and I’m not into debating – because you really can’t win – at the end of the day we all place our faith in what we believe…you can’t debate someone into faith.
And one final thing – I have written only one blog post on homeschooling to show pictures of our first day – I am not a proponent of homeschooling only – I think this is a family decision and I respect all choices from private to public schools. What ever is best for you and your family I respect.
I am very tired of the hate email and all the false accusations. People are reading their own version of my website and making judgements. I know this post is old so no one may even see this comment – but I have to go somewhere and say this! Maybe I should write a blog post on this huh?
Thanks for letting me clear the air!
Courtney
http://www.womenlivingwell-courtney.blogspot.com
Once again, girl on girl, woman on woman, lady on lady bullying is the number one kind of bully out there. From grade school to blog-school and beyond, women continuously do this. I just wonder why?